Смелый переводчик шлет текст
Jul. 4th, 2014 07:30 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
miumauНекоторое время назад я писала, что ищу переводчика для своих книг на английский и немецкий языки, и предлагала желающим перевести на пробу кусочек текста, с тем, чтобы потом спросить моих читателей, как им нравится перевод (это касается только английского, немецкий я сама оценить могу). Я знаю, что это - испытание для переводчика. Выставление любых материалов на суд толпы, с просьбой о критике или мнении - это очень смело! Я часто не советую людям так делать. если не уверен, что в состоянии выдержать комментарии. Потому что многие критикуют не по делу, а многие могут сильно обидеть человека. Но вот нашлась переводчица, которая готова.
Почему я это делаю? Потому что я говорю по-английски, но это очень все несолидно. Оценить литературный текст я не в состоянии. Когда я сама читаю деловые книги на английском, я (к счастью уже) понимаю практически все, что там написано, но чтение ощущаю как физический труд, я с текстом борюсь. Этого у меня нет ни с немецким, ни с русским. Но английский у меня просто слабый. Поэтому оценить чей-то перевод я не в состоянии ни с какой стороны.
Чего я хочу от перевода:
- Чтобы он легко читался для человека, который нормально владеет английским языком, и без труда читает хорошо написанные английские книги. Не только для нейтив-спикеров!
- Чтобы перевод передавал смысл оригинала. Я совсем не претендую на "кальку" и понимаю, что некоторые вещи надо в другом языке писать совсем иначе, но в целом смысл должен остаться.
- Чтобы хоть немного передалась "атмосфера" моего текста. У каждого автора есть свой слог, который даже он сам часто не может воспроизвести, переводя сам себя на другие языки - я на это не претендую совсем! Но если я шучу и хотела, чтобы русский читатель на каком-то месте улыбнулся, то хотелось бы, чтобы и перевод имел подобный эффект. Как-то так.
- И я не претендую на литературный шедевр - по сути данный текст - нечто среднее между деловой литературой и рассказом. И такие тексты должны просто легко и смешно читаться. Т.е. не надо прикапываться к переводчику, если он не пишет как какой-нибудь классик английской литературы. Пусть оно просто легко читается, и является грамотным с точки зрения хоть какого-то английского (мне все равно - бритиш или американский, или какой-то еще).
И будьте осторожны при выборе слов! Критикуя другого, представьте себя на его месте! :-)
Вот оригинал:
http://miu-mau.org/text/53.html
А вот перевод:
That Nonexistent Ideal Client
There is no end to debates over and search for the "ideal client", this myth of a generous and just person who believes that designers know all by themselves how they are supposed to work, since they have studied for it and gained certain experience doing it. This client’s the one who doesn't attempt to assess or quantify creativity, convert it into pounds or yards multiplied by dollars and cents.
Such people don't go turning their thumbs down on a color their designer has painstakingly picked, simply on the grounds that this hue reminds them of the eye color of their sweetheart who, incidentally, has just eloped to Mexico taking along half their nest egg and their broken heart...
It's the client who tends to pay heed to professionals' advice, trusts them whenever they say what is good and what isn't. This kind of person doesn't need a design to be all flashing and iridescent. To tell you the truth, a lot of clients could use a little bit of modesty...
In a perfect world, it should be a person who pays you tons of money and says: "It's up to you how you do it, I'll take anything!"
When we discuss this imaginary client, we still give them credit to have some idea of what they want to get in exchange for their money. However, this idea should be as abstract and flexible and have as few details as possible. This person ought to have faith in the designer, his talent and skills, and also be able to agree that he's totally out of his depth in this line of work (and if he is, it would be a good thing if this fact caused no hard feelings on his part).
What is he like then, this dream client?
Throughout my life, there was probably only one client who gave me a pile of money and said these precious words: "Make it ready, make it good, so that I don't have to think about it." After taking a closer look at him, though, I realized he wasn't a client at all. He was an agent with a few good ideas (which were pretty abstract) and wanted someone to put them into life instead of him and give him an opportunity to do what he always did better than anyone – sales. He was selling ready-made complete projects, promoted and advertised what was already available, and it didn't matter much to him at this point what color those buttons were. The thing's good, so if you like it, buy it as it is, as a whole.
Nevertheless, he still exists, a real-life client who needs a design done for his own pet project and is ready to let a designer create, staying out of the creative process himself. I had one like this visiting me just a couple of days ago...
It took him a long time to get to my door, and all the while he was calling me, apologizing that he and his wife were late. Then he came, alone. Bewildered, he repeatedly looked around at the door and sighed: "She has just broken a flower pot on my head and ran off. Shall I go look for her? What if she takes off on her own?"
I persuaded him to wait a bit and suggested that any furious woman would calm down all by herself within fifteen minutes and come around. She came in ten.
Afterwards, he talked for two hours, pulling out items to illustrate his ideas until the desk was entirely covered in wires, speakers, cell phones, chargers, and papers. Then he went out to find the flower and brought it back along with the pot broken in half.
Like a showman, he amused everyone with his smart and witty talk and told us how well he understood creative people. He described very graphically and at length how little it meant to him what we were going to draw as long as it was really beautiful. But when he opened his laptop to show us texts for his website, I eventually realized this man was off his rocker, pure and simple. Crazy to the point that it was better to have nothing to do with him altogether.
The client left in five hours. And me, I was so amazed at how exhausting insanity could prove to be...
The next day, I got a call from a girl, a manager who was working with me on a small project for a pretty boring and conservative German client. I listened to all her instructions and accepted her condolences on that kind of nasty work I had to do. Then I almost nonchalantly, within an hour, slapped together a totally dull dark blue website featuring a faded laptop on its cover page, and an hour later already there was an email in my mailbox: "Thanks a lot for having done the job so fast. Please send us your account details."
That's when I thought: "Good God, this is so great..."
Now what smart conclusions can we make out of all this?
- Clients who allow designers to do whatever they please at their expense can also talk your head off, nag you to death or drive you to suicide – there's plenty of ways.
- Clients who want to have something dull, ugly or even horrible done for them can be very easy to handle. The trick is to learn to grasp their requests and produce an appropriate and high-quality result that contains all the explicitly described details the customer envisaged.
- If a client strongly insists on something which is by no means compatible with any reasonable solutions, it means he is just stupid. Working with idiots is the most ungrateful thing imaginable (it's only worth it if a lot of money is involved).
- If you have to work with idiots more often than with nice understanding people, maybe it makes sense to consider options with your agent and do something good the way you really like it, just for your own satisfaction. You can ask your agent to sell a completed project (for a certain commission percentage). It is a risk but doing something like this is undeniably enjoyable.
- Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet for dealing with stupidity though I'm willing to over and over sympathize with all my friends, acquaintances and readers about how hard and unhappy life is...
- I haven't yet found a way to do only what I like and get paid enough money to support myself, but I know for sure this is possible. Thus, I often think it's what is worth going after...
***
... But then I forget I should be going after it and start fooling around again...
That's just the way it goes.
Спасибо! :-)
Почему я это делаю? Потому что я говорю по-английски, но это очень все несолидно. Оценить литературный текст я не в состоянии. Когда я сама читаю деловые книги на английском, я (к счастью уже) понимаю практически все, что там написано, но чтение ощущаю как физический труд, я с текстом борюсь. Этого у меня нет ни с немецким, ни с русским. Но английский у меня просто слабый. Поэтому оценить чей-то перевод я не в состоянии ни с какой стороны.
Чего я хочу от перевода:
- Чтобы он легко читался для человека, который нормально владеет английским языком, и без труда читает хорошо написанные английские книги. Не только для нейтив-спикеров!
- Чтобы перевод передавал смысл оригинала. Я совсем не претендую на "кальку" и понимаю, что некоторые вещи надо в другом языке писать совсем иначе, но в целом смысл должен остаться.
- Чтобы хоть немного передалась "атмосфера" моего текста. У каждого автора есть свой слог, который даже он сам часто не может воспроизвести, переводя сам себя на другие языки - я на это не претендую совсем! Но если я шучу и хотела, чтобы русский читатель на каком-то месте улыбнулся, то хотелось бы, чтобы и перевод имел подобный эффект. Как-то так.
- И я не претендую на литературный шедевр - по сути данный текст - нечто среднее между деловой литературой и рассказом. И такие тексты должны просто легко и смешно читаться. Т.е. не надо прикапываться к переводчику, если он не пишет как какой-нибудь классик английской литературы. Пусть оно просто легко читается, и является грамотным с точки зрения хоть какого-то английского (мне все равно - бритиш или американский, или какой-то еще).
И будьте осторожны при выборе слов! Критикуя другого, представьте себя на его месте! :-)
Вот оригинал:
http://miu-mau.org/text/53.html
А вот перевод:
That Nonexistent Ideal Client
There is no end to debates over and search for the "ideal client", this myth of a generous and just person who believes that designers know all by themselves how they are supposed to work, since they have studied for it and gained certain experience doing it. This client’s the one who doesn't attempt to assess or quantify creativity, convert it into pounds or yards multiplied by dollars and cents.
Such people don't go turning their thumbs down on a color their designer has painstakingly picked, simply on the grounds that this hue reminds them of the eye color of their sweetheart who, incidentally, has just eloped to Mexico taking along half their nest egg and their broken heart...
It's the client who tends to pay heed to professionals' advice, trusts them whenever they say what is good and what isn't. This kind of person doesn't need a design to be all flashing and iridescent. To tell you the truth, a lot of clients could use a little bit of modesty...
In a perfect world, it should be a person who pays you tons of money and says: "It's up to you how you do it, I'll take anything!"
When we discuss this imaginary client, we still give them credit to have some idea of what they want to get in exchange for their money. However, this idea should be as abstract and flexible and have as few details as possible. This person ought to have faith in the designer, his talent and skills, and also be able to agree that he's totally out of his depth in this line of work (and if he is, it would be a good thing if this fact caused no hard feelings on his part).
What is he like then, this dream client?
Throughout my life, there was probably only one client who gave me a pile of money and said these precious words: "Make it ready, make it good, so that I don't have to think about it." After taking a closer look at him, though, I realized he wasn't a client at all. He was an agent with a few good ideas (which were pretty abstract) and wanted someone to put them into life instead of him and give him an opportunity to do what he always did better than anyone – sales. He was selling ready-made complete projects, promoted and advertised what was already available, and it didn't matter much to him at this point what color those buttons were. The thing's good, so if you like it, buy it as it is, as a whole.
Nevertheless, he still exists, a real-life client who needs a design done for his own pet project and is ready to let a designer create, staying out of the creative process himself. I had one like this visiting me just a couple of days ago...
It took him a long time to get to my door, and all the while he was calling me, apologizing that he and his wife were late. Then he came, alone. Bewildered, he repeatedly looked around at the door and sighed: "She has just broken a flower pot on my head and ran off. Shall I go look for her? What if she takes off on her own?"
I persuaded him to wait a bit and suggested that any furious woman would calm down all by herself within fifteen minutes and come around. She came in ten.
Afterwards, he talked for two hours, pulling out items to illustrate his ideas until the desk was entirely covered in wires, speakers, cell phones, chargers, and papers. Then he went out to find the flower and brought it back along with the pot broken in half.
Like a showman, he amused everyone with his smart and witty talk and told us how well he understood creative people. He described very graphically and at length how little it meant to him what we were going to draw as long as it was really beautiful. But when he opened his laptop to show us texts for his website, I eventually realized this man was off his rocker, pure and simple. Crazy to the point that it was better to have nothing to do with him altogether.
The client left in five hours. And me, I was so amazed at how exhausting insanity could prove to be...
The next day, I got a call from a girl, a manager who was working with me on a small project for a pretty boring and conservative German client. I listened to all her instructions and accepted her condolences on that kind of nasty work I had to do. Then I almost nonchalantly, within an hour, slapped together a totally dull dark blue website featuring a faded laptop on its cover page, and an hour later already there was an email in my mailbox: "Thanks a lot for having done the job so fast. Please send us your account details."
That's when I thought: "Good God, this is so great..."
Now what smart conclusions can we make out of all this?
- Clients who allow designers to do whatever they please at their expense can also talk your head off, nag you to death or drive you to suicide – there's plenty of ways.
- Clients who want to have something dull, ugly or even horrible done for them can be very easy to handle. The trick is to learn to grasp their requests and produce an appropriate and high-quality result that contains all the explicitly described details the customer envisaged.
- If a client strongly insists on something which is by no means compatible with any reasonable solutions, it means he is just stupid. Working with idiots is the most ungrateful thing imaginable (it's only worth it if a lot of money is involved).
- If you have to work with idiots more often than with nice understanding people, maybe it makes sense to consider options with your agent and do something good the way you really like it, just for your own satisfaction. You can ask your agent to sell a completed project (for a certain commission percentage). It is a risk but doing something like this is undeniably enjoyable.
- Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet for dealing with stupidity though I'm willing to over and over sympathize with all my friends, acquaintances and readers about how hard and unhappy life is...
- I haven't yet found a way to do only what I like and get paid enough money to support myself, but I know for sure this is possible. Thus, I often think it's what is worth going after...
***
... But then I forget I should be going after it and start fooling around again...
That's just the way it goes.
Спасибо! :-)
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no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 05:48 am (UTC)Я привыкла к более простым словам, более коротким предложениям, большей "историйности" и более откровенным шуткам.
Так, например, пишут Джерри Вайнберг и Джоел Спольски.
Но стиль, смысл и атмосфера, имхо, переданы.
no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 05:50 am (UTC)Поддайтесь всеобщей панике!
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Хочу поделиться своим супероткрытием.
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Строчка для ввода будет внизу справа, где обозначена сумма выбранных товаров.
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Он лидирует по мировым продажам и его купили уже свыше 5 тыс. человек!
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(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 06:03 am (UTC)E.g. This client’s the one who doesn't attempt... => Such client won't...
Но это вопрос стиля и предпочтений.
Ещё я споткнулся об уволоченное разбитое сердце (обычно "оставляют с"), но, оказалось, так в оригинале :)
no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 06:36 am (UTC)Хотелось бы увидеть творения критиков, хоть неготивные, хоть пазитивные.
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:08 am (UTC)Сначала перечитала итоговый текст.
Плюс за словечки типа "nest egg", такое знают далеко не все переводчики!
Немного смущают длинные предложения, уж больно они длинны. Но я не могу сказать, почему. Может, я привыкла читать короче, более хваткие и цепкие предложения.
Теперь начинаю сличать с русским текстом.
...
Хотя, действительно перевели "И надо быть скромнее..." довольно длинно, "To tell you the truth, a lot of clients could use a little bit of modesty..."
Это ж "И сказать вам на чистоту\по правде, многим клиентам не повредило бы иметь немного скромности". А можно что-то вроде - "Be a bit modesty too..."
Да, перевод действительно удленнил текст, и это заметно. По собственным ощущениям, вы пишите менее лирично, более цепко. Там где стоит, например, "And me, I was so amazed at how exhausting insanity could prove to be...", из текста уверенно можно убрать "prove to".
no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 06:36 am (UTC)Поразительно, ведь на английском текст всегда короче, по сравнению с русским. По крайней мере когда переводишь НА русский, то текст всегда длиннее, а тут ровно наоборот, очень странно.
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 06:15 am (UTC)Впрочем, имхо, подход к решению задачи выбран неверно — перевод книги должен делать хорошо владеющий русским носитель английского, а не наоборот. Оценивать же его должны потенциальные англоязычные читатели, а не русская аудитория, воспринимающая текст сквозь призму своих русских уроков английского и русскоязычное мышление. Как-то так :-)
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:17 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 10:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 06:25 am (UTC)Переводчику: не обессудьте, я обычно прохожу мимо, если хочется критиковать, но сама прошла процесс оценки своего перевода и его шлифования, так что работайте. )))
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Date: 2014-07-04 07:50 am (UTC)(no subject)
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From:Кустомер всегда прав! Ему только нужна помочь
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 11:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 06:39 am (UTC)вычитывать тоже должен носитель целевого языка.
как человек, который по работе иногда (редко, слава Богу) переводит на английский язык... ну правда, не советую вот. да. это и у нас считается не очень благим делом.
Все-таки переводить надо на родной язык. Одно дело перерпереть какие-нибудь технические таблицы или строительные техусловия - там сильно не напортишь, надо спецсловарь знать, и все... а другое дело художественный текст. Я сама общаюсь много по-английски на форуме одном, но все равно - ну видно, что мова неродная.
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Date: 2014-07-04 06:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 07:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 07:13 am (UTC)При этом переводчик сделал хорошую работу, несмотря на все указанные читателями недостатки, и - как мне кажется - не заслужил высокомерной критики за тот единственный факт, что он не нэйтив.
Смелой переводчице до прекрасных переводов в сто раз ближе, чем большинству её существующих в мире коллег.
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Date: 2014-07-07 09:48 am (UTC)Полностью согласна про смелую переводчицу.
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Date: 2014-07-04 07:14 am (UTC)...а ведь вы уже, кажется, выкладывали парочку переводов этого текста? я помню, мне тогда второй вариант очень понравился.
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Date: 2014-07-04 07:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 07:52 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2014-07-04 07:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 07:56 am (UTC)So this whining about a perfect customer never really stops. You know, if only there was this one who is understanding and reasonable. The one who would believe in designer's ideas and education enough to assume that the designer knows what he's doing. The one who wouldn't be just putting price tags on art.
This perfect one who wouldn't turn that carefully chosen color down just because it reminds him of this girl that has just fled to Mexico with half his money and his broken heart...
Может вам, правда, лучше искать носителя с нормальным (даже, может, несовершенным, а просто приличным) русским? Я не профи, но, по-моему, не всякий носитель даже возьмется читать такой перевод.
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Date: 2014-07-04 08:19 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2014-07-04 08:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 08:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 08:33 am (UTC)Не надо " короче")))
Как рассуждение, он построен стилистически выверенно. находки есть удачные. Вы обсуждали, кто будет вашей целевой аудиторией?
Если люди с мастерс и выше- все окей.
Customer - clientобсуждается, зависит от того, как в вашей прфессиональной среде называют клиента
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Date: 2014-07-04 08:47 am (UTC)честно говоря, я сначала написала customer (всегда так пишу), но потом спросила людей, которые умнее меня, и поменяла))
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Date: 2014-07-04 08:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 11:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-07-04 09:04 am (UTC)The dreams and talk about an “ideal client” are endless. That mythical client that’s honourable and fair. Who believes that a designer knows how to work better (that’s what he’s been training and getting experience for). Who isn’t trying to weigh the creation, to break it down into kilos and meters, multiplied by dollars and cents.
A client who hears the advice of professionals and believes them when they say: that’s good and this is bad. And you don’t have to have it all shine and sparkle with all the colours of the rainbow. And a bit of modesty wouldn’t hurt.
Ideally, it should be someone who gives you a load of money and says, “Make me something how you think is best, I’ll take everything!”
When we discuss this imaginary client, we let him have an idea of what he wants to get for his money. But ideally, that idea needs to be very abstract and bendy, having as little detail as possible. This person needs to have faith in the designer and his skills, and should be able to agree that he doesn’t understand anything about this (Would be nice if he didn’t get upset or offended by that).
So what kind of a person should this “client of my dreams” be?
I’d say there was only a single client in my life that gave me a load of money and said, “Make it ready and awesome, so I won’t have to think about it.” With a closer look, however, it turned out that he was no client at all. He was an agent that had several great ideas. He wanted these (rather abstract) ideas put to life and then he wanted to do the only thing he always knew better than others – to sell. He sold a finished project, advertised what already existed and it wasn’t very important what colour the buttons were. It’s good stuff – buy it how it is, if you like t.
And yet, he exists; this real client that wants to get a design of his own creation and is ready to let the designer create, without interfering in the process. Just two days ago I had him come over…
It took him a long time to get here and he kept calling on the way, saying sorry that he and his wife are being late. Embarrassed, he kept looking at the door and sighing, “She just broke a flower pot on my head and ran off. Maybe I should go look for her? What if she goes off alone?”
I convinced him to stay and wait, suggesting that a furious woman is bound to calm down within 15 minutes and come back herself. She came back after 10 minutes.
Afterwards, he spoke for two hours, taking out illustrations for his idea on the table, until it was covered in wires, speakers, mobile phones, chargers and papers. Then he went out to look for the flower on the street and brought him back with the pot cracked in two.
He amused everyone with his witty talk, like a showman, and talked about how well he understands creative people. Long and colourfully, he described just how much what we were going to draw didn’t matter to him, as long as everything was very beautiful. When he opened his laptop to show us the text to the website, I realized that this man was just crazy. So crazy, it was better for me not to have anything to do with him.
Five hours later, he was gone and I wondered just how much insanity can wear you out…
The next day, a girl called, a manager with whom we were finishing up a little job for a boring and conservative German client. I listened to all of her instructions and accepted condolences on having to do such yucky work, without any sentiments drew up a boring dark-blue website within an hour, with a blurry laptop on the cover, and already an hour later got an email in my inbox, “Thanks a lot for doing it so quickly. Please send us your bank account details.”
And I thought, “Goodness, this is so awesome…”
So, what sort of intelligent conclusions can we get from all this?
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Date: 2014-07-04 10:35 am (UTC)That mythical client that’s honourable and fair. Who believes that a designer knows how to work better (that’s what he’s been training and getting experience for). Who isn’t trying to weigh the creation, to break it down into kilos and meters, multiplied by dollars and cents.
Wow. Have read what you wrote or it's beautiful anyway? With mistakes, wrong words, typos?!
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From:Эх, была не была
Date: 2014-07-04 09:12 am (UTC)Every now and then you run across the concept of the “ideal client”: the elusive, mythical customer who's noble and fair; someone who believes that the designer, with his background and experience, knows what he's doing. Someone who doesn't try to measure your creativity or to convert it into inches and pounds multiplied by dollars and cents.
The “ideal client” wouldn't discard a color carefully selected by the designer just because it reminds him of the eyes of his girlfriend who'd recently run off to Mexico with half of his fortune, leaving him heartbroken. It's someone eager to listen to expert opinion and to trust the designer on what is good and what is bad, even when you say that flickering rainbow colors aren't the best solution, and that moderation has never hurt anyone. In the best-case scenario, it's someone who brings you a bundle of cash, saying: “Do whatever you see fit, and I'll be happy to approve it!”
In our mind, the imaginary “ideal client” is entitled to have some idea of what he expects to get for his money. However, this idea should be abstract and vague, with as little detail as possible. This person should have blind faith in the designer's talents and be able to admit his own ignorance in the matter – preferably, with no hurt feelings involved.
So what's he actually like, my “dream client”?
Re: Эх, была не была
Date: 2014-07-05 12:37 am (UTC)Re: Эх, была не была
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